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we say hello good morning to the respect

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MP George Galloway and uh the former US

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intelligence officer B Bears gentlemen

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um first of all George Galloway why the

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change in tone from

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tone well they're constantly looking for

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something that will get them out of this

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terrible mess that they've gotten us all

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into a bloody mess uh for our soldiers

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four of whom would died on Remembrance

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Sunday and uh this is clutching yet

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another strong

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in so far as it might have been helpful

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at one time it's a too little too late

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strategem hedged around with all sorts

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of Demands on Syria and Iran that they

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admit that they've been beating their

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wives and agree to stop it and so on uh

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I'm afraid it will not end the war

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because the war does not depend on Iran

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or Syria the Iraqis themselves are up in

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arms against the occupation in

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sufficient numbers as to cause terrible

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attrition to our and the American forces

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and that will not stop until we leave

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yeah but I should say to you George

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Galloway this is a tactic that prime

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minister has tried before he's tried it

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in Northern Ireland um engaging With the

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Enemy um as it were and it worked from

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there well it's not Syria and Iran who

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are the enemy of course it's the Iraqis

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who are fighting the occupying forces

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and uh doing a terribly efficient job of

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it in the sense that 3,000 poor American

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soldiers uh now well over 100 poor

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British soldiers have had to give their

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lives blood because of the bushan Blair

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occupation of Iraq and that's not going

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to stop because you uh throw down a lot

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of conditions under which you will speak

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to the neighboring countries of course

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they should speak to the neighboring

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countries they should have done so long

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ago that's what the anti-war movement

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was arguing from the very beginning

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better late than never but it's probably

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too little and too okay too little too

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late says George Galloway B Bears what

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are your reservations about entering

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into talks with these countries I think

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the first thing we have to recognize is

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that both Syria and Iran are involved in

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the conflict they're both providing

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support to the Waring factions with

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Syria supporting sunnis and the former

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baist regime and Iran supporting the

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Shia combatants within the the country

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if we do engage in any sort of

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discussion with these two Nations States

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then the the typical coin on the table

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that is used for bargaining is either

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territorial acquisition it's either

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political power enhancement or its

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economic gain now I'd hate to think that

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if we do engage in any sort of

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bargaining with these people that we

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would be willing to seed some territory

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that isn't ours to seed to them I'd also

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hate to think that we want to enhance

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the political power of two of the major

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destabilizing regimes in the region and

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lastly if we're trying to incentivize

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them to allow us to withdraw gracefully

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then we're going to do that with

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economic means and the question becomes

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how much are we willing to pay to be

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allowed to declare some form of success

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and extra extricate ourselves from the

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situation we find ourselves in now all

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this assumes George Galloway that Iran

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and Syria want us to talk to them do

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they well it's a bit rich I must say

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because Iran of course has been already

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made enormously powerful in Iraq by by

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us it's one of the bizarre achievements

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of the neocon foreign policy that the

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country they fear most Iran against

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which they encouraged Saddam Hussein to

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fight a long war in the 1980s so fearful

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of the Iranian Revolution World they is

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now vastly powerful especially across

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the south of Iraq uh where its place men

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are in place everywhere and it's uh

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militias that it supports are already

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ruling the roost there so you don't have

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to seed any territory to Iran in order

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to talk to them you've already seeded

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the territory to them but I stress this

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point we mustn't develop this into

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another of those magic turning points

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remember them remember the capture of

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Saddam the killing of his sons the

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signing of constitutions the killing of

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Abu musab barawi remember him that was

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going to be the beginning of the end of

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all this we mustn't make this Iran Syria

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talks uh another Chimera which uh we

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persuade ourselves is going to bring

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things to an end only to be bitterly

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disappointed because the people who pay

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the price for the disappointment are the

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young soldiers that we've sent there uh

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to give their lives blood and meanwhile

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B Bears I'm looking at a headline in the

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front of the Daily Telegraph this

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morning Iran plotting to groom Bin

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Laden's successor H will dialogue bring

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to an end things like this oh it's it's

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very very doubtful I I note that Mr

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Galloway is very eloquent at describing

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uh past conditions and past mistakes but

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the one thing I find lacking in

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everything that he says is any

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description of an articulate way ahead

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he just criticizes but offers no

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alternative okay offer me an alternative

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George

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Galloway this is this is the man whose

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government has killed hundreds of

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thousands of people turned the world

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upside down sent flames and hatred

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everywhere and he wants me to come up

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with the answer have some humility for

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God's sake have some humility for God's

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sake you should be embarrassed coming on

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the television Mr Galloway I'm a Brit so

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if you're criticizing your own

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government then that's fine but that

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still doesn't compensate for no offer of

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a constructive way ahead but but I have

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many constructive ways ahead but the

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neocon foreign policy which you as an

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American intelligence officer which is

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how you were introduced if you're a Brit

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then our influence is greater in

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Washington than I thought and you don't

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sound much like a brick but if you are I

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apologize

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well B bears as as well does does it not

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strike you as a bit paradoxical that the

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Prime Minister today will speak to the

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baker inquiry in Washington and not

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publicly to the House of Commons on all

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of

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this Paul Bears well it strikes me a

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little bit paradoxical we're still

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hoping for a debate in the uh in the

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house but we haven't had one that I

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would consider to be a legitimate debate

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on what our war aims and objectives are

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now yeah well can we really afford not

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to do business with Iran and Iraq well

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the question becomes doing business with

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anyone relies on them behaving according

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to what they say they're going to do if

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we believe that Iran and Iraq will

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behave as Honorable Men and act on their

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stated intentions then that poses a

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difficulty for their stated intentions

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Visa the state of Israel right well let

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me ask George Galloway do you think um

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Iran and Syria will honor their

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International obligations will they

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behave will they be good boys do you

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think well aan they don't have any

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obligation to get Britain and America

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out of the mess that they got themselves

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into in Iraq after all they warned

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Britain and America not to do this uh as

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did the anti-war movement though I I

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knowe that I'm now being asked to come

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up with a solution for the mess that

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other people have made uh so we we

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oughtn't to place these conditions we

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we'll be lucky if Iran and Syria even

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agree to talk to us after all we've 've

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caused total devastation in the area

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against their advice in the first place

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okay well George Galloway thank you for

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talking to us this morning and ball

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Bears thank you both very much indeed

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you'll get our emails uh working very

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hard today and the phone's ringing off

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the hook thank you both very much indeed

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thank you