we say hello good morning to the respect
MP George Galloway and uh the former US
intelligence officer B Bears gentlemen
um first of all George Galloway why the
change in tone from
tone well they're constantly looking for
something that will get them out of this
terrible mess that they've gotten us all
into a bloody mess uh for our soldiers
four of whom would died on Remembrance
Sunday and uh this is clutching yet
another strong
in so far as it might have been helpful
at one time it's a too little too late
strategem hedged around with all sorts
of Demands on Syria and Iran that they
admit that they've been beating their
wives and agree to stop it and so on uh
I'm afraid it will not end the war
because the war does not depend on Iran
or Syria the Iraqis themselves are up in
arms against the occupation in
sufficient numbers as to cause terrible
attrition to our and the American forces
and that will not stop until we leave
yeah but I should say to you George
Galloway this is a tactic that prime
minister has tried before he's tried it
in Northern Ireland um engaging With the
Enemy um as it were and it worked from
there well it's not Syria and Iran who
are the enemy of course it's the Iraqis
who are fighting the occupying forces
and uh doing a terribly efficient job of
it in the sense that 3,000 poor American
soldiers uh now well over 100 poor
British soldiers have had to give their
lives blood because of the bushan Blair
occupation of Iraq and that's not going
to stop because you uh throw down a lot
of conditions under which you will speak
to the neighboring countries of course
they should speak to the neighboring
countries they should have done so long
ago that's what the anti-war movement
was arguing from the very beginning
better late than never but it's probably
too little and too okay too little too
late says George Galloway B Bears what
are your reservations about entering
into talks with these countries I think
the first thing we have to recognize is
that both Syria and Iran are involved in
the conflict they're both providing
support to the Waring factions with
Syria supporting sunnis and the former
baist regime and Iran supporting the
Shia combatants within the the country
if we do engage in any sort of
discussion with these two Nations States
then the the typical coin on the table
that is used for bargaining is either
territorial acquisition it's either
political power enhancement or its
economic gain now I'd hate to think that
if we do engage in any sort of
bargaining with these people that we
would be willing to seed some territory
that isn't ours to seed to them I'd also
hate to think that we want to enhance
the political power of two of the major
destabilizing regimes in the region and
lastly if we're trying to incentivize
them to allow us to withdraw gracefully
then we're going to do that with
economic means and the question becomes
how much are we willing to pay to be
allowed to declare some form of success
and extra extricate ourselves from the
situation we find ourselves in now all
this assumes George Galloway that Iran
and Syria want us to talk to them do
they well it's a bit rich I must say
because Iran of course has been already
made enormously powerful in Iraq by by
us it's one of the bizarre achievements
of the neocon foreign policy that the
country they fear most Iran against
which they encouraged Saddam Hussein to
fight a long war in the 1980s so fearful
of the Iranian Revolution World they is
now vastly powerful especially across
the south of Iraq uh where its place men
are in place everywhere and it's uh
militias that it supports are already
ruling the roost there so you don't have
to seed any territory to Iran in order
to talk to them you've already seeded
the territory to them but I stress this
point we mustn't develop this into
another of those magic turning points
remember them remember the capture of
Saddam the killing of his sons the
signing of constitutions the killing of
Abu musab barawi remember him that was
going to be the beginning of the end of
all this we mustn't make this Iran Syria
talks uh another Chimera which uh we
persuade ourselves is going to bring
things to an end only to be bitterly
disappointed because the people who pay
the price for the disappointment are the
young soldiers that we've sent there uh
to give their lives blood and meanwhile
B Bears I'm looking at a headline in the
front of the Daily Telegraph this
morning Iran plotting to groom Bin
Laden's successor H will dialogue bring
to an end things like this oh it's it's
very very doubtful I I note that Mr
Galloway is very eloquent at describing
uh past conditions and past mistakes but
the one thing I find lacking in
everything that he says is any
description of an articulate way ahead
he just criticizes but offers no
alternative okay offer me an alternative
George
Galloway this is this is the man whose
government has killed hundreds of
thousands of people turned the world
upside down sent flames and hatred
everywhere and he wants me to come up
with the answer have some humility for
God's sake have some humility for God's
sake you should be embarrassed coming on
the television Mr Galloway I'm a Brit so
if you're criticizing your own
government then that's fine but that
still doesn't compensate for no offer of
a constructive way ahead but but I have
many constructive ways ahead but the
neocon foreign policy which you as an
American intelligence officer which is
how you were introduced if you're a Brit
then our influence is greater in
Washington than I thought and you don't
sound much like a brick but if you are I
apologize
well B bears as as well does does it not
strike you as a bit paradoxical that the
Prime Minister today will speak to the
baker inquiry in Washington and not
publicly to the House of Commons on all
of
this Paul Bears well it strikes me a
little bit paradoxical we're still
hoping for a debate in the uh in the
house but we haven't had one that I
would consider to be a legitimate debate
on what our war aims and objectives are
now yeah well can we really afford not
to do business with Iran and Iraq well
the question becomes doing business with
anyone relies on them behaving according
to what they say they're going to do if
we believe that Iran and Iraq will
behave as Honorable Men and act on their
stated intentions then that poses a
difficulty for their stated intentions
Visa the state of Israel right well let
me ask George Galloway do you think um
Iran and Syria will honor their
International obligations will they
behave will they be good boys do you
think well aan they don't have any
obligation to get Britain and America
out of the mess that they got themselves
into in Iraq after all they warned
Britain and America not to do this uh as
did the anti-war movement though I I
knowe that I'm now being asked to come
up with a solution for the mess that
other people have made uh so we we
oughtn't to place these conditions we
we'll be lucky if Iran and Syria even
agree to talk to us after all we've 've
caused total devastation in the area
against their advice in the first place
okay well George Galloway thank you for
talking to us this morning and ball
Bears thank you both very much indeed
you'll get our emails uh working very
hard today and the phone's ringing off
the hook thank you both very much indeed
thank you